pilgrim in progress

Comments 12

1. Alan Casasempere wrote:

   Wow, amazing quote. Where did you get that? Did you make it up? I need to think about that one.

   Posted 27 Mar 2007 at 7:37 pm ¶
2. Jason wrote:

   It came from my notes and thoughts from a systematic theology class I took last Spring. It is a powerful thought!

   Posted 28 Mar 2007 at 9:51 am ¶
3. matt wrote:

   Does Jesus still “mediate” post-judgment?

   Posted 28 Mar 2007 at 12:25 pm ¶
4. JD wrote:

   I really appreciate your attempt to aphorize, Jason. Certainly thought provoking and a good way to get us to theologize. These kind of simple statements are often tricky.

   Some theologians argue that we will not even “see” the Father,as the Son is his perfect expression. Jesus will always mediate, in creation and new creation, as all things are made, sustained and remade through him (Col 1.15-20). We will have unhindered access to the trinity because of the mediatorial role of Christ. In great regard, hell will be hell because it is a Christless eternity.

   However, the aphorism is too simple, and is a truncated view of heaven and hell. To be sure, heaven is God’s dwelling place, along with Christ, but what of the Holy Spirit? What of heaven-as-new creation? If we are too “God-centered” in our view of heaven and hell we become gnostics, forsaking God’s glory in creation, expressed particularly in his wrath poured out on the bodies of the wicked and his grace in resurrecting and glorifying the bodies of the righteous. An incarnate mediator means much for heaven and hell.

   Posted 29 Mar 2007 at 9:37 am ¶
5. Jason wrote:

   JD, I agree! Your comments are exactly the thing I hoped my simple aphorism would stir. Matt’s question is great too and I think you answered it.

   Thanks for filling it out.

   Can you think of any examples of non-truncating aphorisms?

   Posted 29 Mar 2007 at 10:12 am ¶
6. JD wrote:

   God is most glorified in us when we are most satisfied in Him.

   Posted 29 Mar 2007 at 11:08 am ¶
7. Jason wrote:

   What of the Holy Spirit and Christ in that wonderful aphorism? Seems you can argue it too is truncated on a certain level.

   Posted 29 Mar 2007 at 11:18 am ¶
8. matt wrote:

   JD said:

   Some theologians argue that we will not even “see” the Father,as the Son is his perfect expression. Jesus will always mediate, in creation and new creation, as all things are made, sustained and remade through him (Col 1.15-20). We will have unhindered access to the trinity because of the mediatorial role of Christ.

   Sweet. My question was more about Christ’s mediation for us as sinners. Jason’s original aphorism (great new word for me, by the way!) seemed to have more to do with the Father’s righteous judgment and the outpouring of his wrath than his mediatory expression of the Father’s person-hood.

   So, does Jesus still mediate because of our sin after we are perfected? I don’t know the answer, or what bearing the answer has on my relationship with him now or ever. Just curious.

   Posted 29 Mar 2007 at 1:02 pm ¶
9. darian wrote:

   vote for my project. we still need 56 votes to make it:

   http://www.givemeaning.com/proposal/CYWC07

   americans can vote too…
   

   Posted 29 Mar 2007 at 4:19 pm ¶
10. Jason wrote:

    Yeah, aphorism, my new word for the day! Thanks Jonathan!

    I would say though we are perfected in glory Christ is still seen and magnified as our mediator. This is seen in the numerous references to the Lamb in heaven.

    “I saw no temple in the city, for its temple is the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb…the glory of God gives it light, and its lamp is the Lamb” (Rev 21:22-23).

    You could say presently we worship the Lamb for inaugerating His mediatorial work, while in heaven we will worship the Lamb for consumating His mediatorial work. There’s much more that can be said on this. I’d love to hear Jonathan weigh in on!

    Another question to add to the mix would be when did Christ become a mediator between God and man?

    I have to run but on another note, go vote for my brothers project! God is doing some awesome things up in Canada!

    Posted 29 Mar 2007 at 5:07 pm ¶
11. Dee wrote:

    I believe as well that Jesus will be acting as mediator in heaven. I have often thought about the statement by Paul, “Now faith, hope, love, abide in these three, but the greatest is love.” Of course the common and accurate response is that we will no longer hope or need faith in heaven because there we will see Him face to face. Love will remain because it is eternal. Of course, any attribute of God is eternal, and so we will eternally react to what God eternally radiates. Amongst the many attributes that we could indeed list, one striking one is justice. God is eternally just, and for that reason, Jesus stands on our behalf even in heaven–as a slain Lamb.

    Posted 29 Mar 2007 at 9:05 pm ¶
12. JD wrote:

    Well put Jason! Jesus inaugurates his (redemptive) mediatorial work in creation, and consummates his redemptive mediatorial work in the new creation.

    However, I would add that Jesus has always been a mediator, of God, creation, and new creation (included redemption/slain Lamb). Jesus does not put on the hat of mediator for redemption and take it off in heaven. Jesus Christ is essentially a mediator. Were it not for his mediatorial role, everything that exists would collapse.

    To know Jesus is to know the Triune God. Therefore, as we can not separate Jesus from mediation, we can not separate Jesus from teh Trinity. This is important because to know God, to commune with him, it to know the threeinone, oneinthree. (I regularly repent of christomonism.) As Gunton has pointed out, God would collapse into monism or pantheism, were it not for the ontological presence of Christ as agent/mediator.

    Posted 30 Mar 2007 at 12:39 pm ¶

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